Community engagement and philanthropic giving go hand in hand in Professor Susan Appe’s classroom. Students -- both undergraduate and graduate -- dive deep into complex social issues, while developing their ability to positively impact those challenges by strategically investing dollars, in sizable amounts, in nonprofit organizations. In this episode of The Engagement Ring, Dr. Susan Appe, an associate professor of public administration and policy at Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy at the University at Albany, shares what she's doing to empower the next generation of givers and nonprofit leaders.
Bio for Susan Appe
Website for Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy
Website for Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy Department of Public Administration and Policy
Website for the University at Albany
Website for the Peace Corps
Website for Peace Corps Prep at UAlbany
Website for the United Way of the Greater Capital Region
Website for the Blake Annex, Albany N.Y.
United Way of the Greater Capital Region ALICE webiste
Some of the organizations Dr. Appe's class has donated to:
Website for The MoonCatcher Project
Website for In Our Own Voices, Albany, NY
Website for the Commission on Economic Opportunity, Troy, NY
The Engagement Ring, Episode 20: Philanthropy – Gen Z Style
[Lively, upbeat theme music plays as program host Mary Hunt introduces the program and plays excerpts from the program.]
ANNOUNCER/MARY HUNT:
Welcome to the Engagement Ring, your connection to an ever-widening network of higher education professionals, scholars, and community partners, working to make the world a better place. I'm Mary Hunt. Today on the podcast…
SUSAN APPE:
I want my students to be generous, whatever that looks like in their communities. I want them to be able to articulate causes they care about
ANNOUNCER/MARY HUNT:
Community engagement and philanthropic giving go hand in hand and Professor Susan Appe’s classroom at Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy at the University at Albany, Students dive deep into complex social issues, while developing their ability to positively impact those challenges by strategically investing dollars -- in sizable amounts -- in nonprofit organizations.
SUSAN APPE:
You would be so excited to see how the students really take their role as stewards of that money seriously, and the causes that they bring to the forefront in the class and share with their other colleagues… it's pretty neat to see students really get into it.
ANNOUNCER/MARY HUNT:
Empowering the next generation of givers and nonprofit leaders… here's my conversation with Dr. Susan Appe.
[Theme music fades out.]
MARY HUNT:
Welcome to the podcast. Susan, it's so nice to see you again.
SUSAN APPE:
Thank you. Great to be here.
MARY HUNT:
We first met years ago when I worked at Rockefeller College, and you were a graduate student at Rockefeller and then to everyone’s sadness, but great pride, you graduated and went on to Binghamton University, where you taught and conducted research as an assistant professor. And now to our great fortune, you're back. You're back at Rockefeller, as an associate professor and one of our leading nonprofit experts. So it is really delightful to have a chance to talk with you and learn a little bit about the work that you're doing now.
SUSAN APPE:
Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be back in Albany.
MARY HUNT:
Well, I'm curious, what is it like to graduate, go teach somewhere else, conduct your research, and you conduct research all over the world and then come back to your alma mater? What is the experience of now being back as an instructor teaching and conducting research like?
SUSAN APPE:
Well, it's both the same and so different, right? I'm wearing a different hat. I'm not a doctoral student. But I'm seeing a lot of the same faces, but new faces. When I first came back for my interview in fall 2017, I walked into Milne Hall, which is on the downtown campus, as you know, and I hadn't been there in some time, and it smelled exactly the same. But it was so comforting, right because I spent a lot of time in that building as a graduate student. And so that was the same, but then we have, as academic departments do, they change and evolve. And we have lots of new faculty that weren't here when I was a doctoral student. So it's been exciting. But to be part of a program that, you know, was such a big part of building my capacity in research and teaching. It's been really neat to then now come back and contribute. And I'm from the Albany area; I grew up here. I went to high school here. My sister lives here with her family. My aunt, my grandmother's here. So it's a real privilege to be back in Albany and be living where you want to live in academia, which is doesn't always happen.
MARY HUNT:
Well, let's talk a little bit about the work you're doing now at Rockefeller. One course, in particular that you are teaching has gotten a lot of positive attention and admiration from the community and I imagine from your students, because it's a real benefit to the community as well as to the learners in the class, “Private philanthropy, Public Problems and Power.” So this is a course that you're teaching that uses something called experiential philanthropy. Can you tell me, what is experiential philanthropy?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah. So experiential philanthropy or it's also called student philanthropy is essentially advancing student learning during coursework while, coursework on philanthropy, and doing philanthropy, right. And so, the idea here is that students have a pool of money and are going through the process of researching and thinking about how best to use that money in the philanthropic or nonprofit space. And so students are reading the theory, reading and listening to practitioners who come into the classroom, but then also able to actually act on philanthropy, and experience being a donor, which is important experience being a steward of funds that they want to see have impact in their community.
MARY HUNT:
Are they undergraduates? Are they graduate students, or both?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so I've used the model both on graduate students are students that are generally going into public service, working in nonprofits or maybe in government but interacting with nonprofits, right. And then with undergraduates who might not be going the professional service route but are taking the course as part of their undergraduate degree. So the courses look different but at the core, they're using this experiential philanthropy model where they're learning about philanthropy, learning about how it impacts nonprofits, and how nonprofits impact and create vibrant communities, while actually being donors putting a hat on and being donors.
SUSAN APPE:
Where does the funding come from? And how much funding that they have at hand?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so we have the Student Philanthropy Fund, which basically the University allowed me to create to kind of hold private donations to the fund. And so we have funding from the Learning by Giving Foundation, which is a foundation based out of Boston created by Doris Buffett, who happens to be or was this the sister of Warren Buffett, who is a very familiar face in the philanthropic world. And she recently passed away a few years ago, but she had this vision to inspire and educate undergraduate students in particular to be philanthropically engaged and to be community leaders, right. And this is, of course, along the lines of our mission as a public university, we want our students to leave the University of Albany as community leaders and thinking like community leaders. And so we have funding from there, the foundation, and then we've been able to match that funding, which is a requirement, from private donors locally. That includes Rockefeller alums, which has been really neat… who are engaging and thinking that this is a really powerful way that Rockefeller in particular is educating its students. And then we have private donors locally, who want to give locally, and are okay with the decision making through the students as part of a learning experience for the students. Right. So they know that they want the some at least a portion of their philanthropic dollars to go to local nonprofit organizations, and they're saying we're going to trust students as stewards of this money to make a really deliberate and consensus-based decision of where those funds should go in the community.
MARY HUNT:
How much money is in the fund? Does it vary from course to course?
SUSAN APPE:
We're slowly building it right. We started, you know, with… I used some of my research funds, $1,000, just to start the Student Philanthropy Fund. And that was when I was applying to the grant from the Learning by Giving Foundation. We've raised in total about $60,000. And we've given out just under $40,000 since 2019. And so it depends. Last semester I was teaching the class. That semester we gave out $15,000. And so I'm with the goal of increasing that money, but I would say generally we're working with, we'll be working with about 10 or 15 thousand dollars a semester
MARY HUNT:
Which is interesting. That’s a lot more money than probably any of the students has had access to before to give out… or most of us have, you know.
SUSAN APPE:
Exactly.
MARY HUNT:
That's a lot of money to, to have responsibility for.
SUSAN APPE:
Exactly, and the students… you would be so excited to see how the students really take their role as stewards of that money seriously. And, and the causes that they bring to the forefront in the class and share with their other colleagues. It's pretty neat to see students really get into it, to not really understand what is philanthropy and actually to have sort of a negative connotation of philanthropy or thinking it’s just a Bill Gates. It's just a Warren Buffett, and for them to kind of reconsider themselves as a philanthropist is a pretty neat kind of transformation in the short time I have them.
MARY HUNT:
That's interesting. So some of them come to you with a negative view of philanthropy. Interesting. Where are their impressions at that age… I mean, most of your students, I'm assuming are in their late teens, early 20s. Where are their impressions of giving and philanthropy coming from? Where do they get these notions?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so I think that part of it is a bit in the public discourse that there has been some maybe needed, critical looking at philanthropy, of what, why philanthropy in itself exists and we talk about that. And this is the fine line, that as an instructor in these classes, I think I play is that I want students to be critical thinkers, of course. I want students to be questioning around issues of inequality of why poverty exists, right. And then thinking about solutions and thinking about the solutions that still might not be the perfect solution. So philanthropy is often thought of as one of the solutions to solve public problems. But I think by the end of the course they realize that that is pretty limited still, that, you know, public problems are so complex that we need multiple multisector conversations, etc. So it's not just philanthropy that can solve all the public problems. So I want them to know that, but I also want them to be philanthropic in their day-to-day life, and to be givers, right, to think about ways in which they can give to their community. And so that's kind of a fine line, to some degree, right. But I think students come to the class thinking of Bill Gates when they think of philanthropy, and then they leave the class thinking of themselves in this the scheme of philanthropy.
MARY HUNT:
Very interesting. Yeah, there's quite a range of ability to give, but impact was still can be as important.
SUSAN APPE:
People of tougher economic situations give more proportionally than people who are wealthy.
MARY HUNT:
Well, you know, it's interesting, because before our conversation, I just did a little bit of reading on philanthropy, and I read about some of the communities that were noted as being the most generous in the country for giving, and I was really surprised. They were not necessarily communities that I would think of as very affluent communities. They were average, middle income communities. And I was really struck by that.
SUSAN APPE:
You know, we do start with thinking about the Andrew Carnegie's, and Bill Gates, right, and that that has been often our association with philanthropy. But then I show students all sorts of actors and philanthropy from high-net worth still like LeBron James, Beyonce… all have their foundations and are doing work that they care about… causes that they care about, to local giving groups of African Americans to churches, right, to every day, mutual aid that we saw and became so popular and really rose to the top, at least in terms of discussion during the pandemic, right. And students know that… mutual aid five years ago, six years ago, if I mentioned mutual aid, my students wouldn't necessarily… that wouldn't resonate with them It resonates with them now, and because of the pandemic, right.
MARY HUNT:
Tell me what you mean by mutual aid, in terms of giving.
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, this idea of reciprocity, of helping each other out in terms of you know, and there's lots of global frameworks that shed some light on this, but this idea of today, I will help you out, knowing that you might be there when I need help, right. And so that reciprocity, and that idea of equally benefiting by helping each other. I think students really respond to that to the point where my classes have not, you know, I have a whole week that we just discuss that and they all… that really makes sense to them because they've all experienced it, or they've been the recipients of that or have given what they consider mutual aid.
MARY HUNT:
That's kind of a whole new way of thinking about giving. And I'm wondering if there's some generational differences there. And I want to ask you a little bit about that in a couple of minutes. But tell me a little bit about the design of your classes. The graduate class -- does that run the same way as the undergraduate? I mean, do they break into teams? Visit nonprofits? What kind of activities do they undertake in a class?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so I tend to think of my role as facilitating. I mean, I'm doing the normal professor things of giving short lectures, engaging them in some activities to apply some of the concepts that we're talking about in the actual coursework. And then in addition to that, students, and I'm just here the facilitator, students are thinking about how they want to go about organizing and the process of what they need to do by the end of the semester, which is give let's say 10 thousand dollars away. And so generally, and there's been some differences because it is really in the hands of the students, but generally students will start with coming to the class with personal interests and causes that they care about and share that with their peers. Right. And we know and this is part of the learning experience, that philanthropy is really personal, a lot of our philanthropic choices are based on personal and lived experiences, right. And so we get a sense of that when students come to the class and talk about the causes that they care about. And then from there, we try to find organizations that are addressing some of these causes that students care about causes and interests that they care about in the community. And then from there, eventually, we will get to a smaller group of organizations, so-called finalists, where students then are in teams, and this is where they're putting their hats on as researchers and investigators so to speak, and they're pulling information together that they can share to the class that will help inform our decision. And so in some ways, it's a pitch but really, it's about students bringing information of let's say, there's five finalists, organizations, bringing this information in. Students have a very deliberate conversation of where best this money could be, could be invested in these organizations. And, and there's an assumption that, at that stage, students will only, quote “vote” for their own organization. But it doesn't happen like that. There is some really interesting conversation about community need, community strengths, about where our donation will have the most impact and what that looks like. And while we don't necessarily always get to consensus, we're, I'm surprised at how many semesters we do end up with consensus. There have been times where we voted but students still respect and understand the process. But that's mostly the way in both the undergraduate and the graduate class. It's along those lines. And so the students really play two roles. They play, you know, they collect information for the class to make a decision, and I can talk about some of that information, which is important, and their stewards. So they're really making deliberate decisions based on goals and values as a class that they've decided on.
MARY HUNT:
What kind of information are they seeking and what resources do they go to find that information?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so as community partners, we're really conscious of not putting more burdens on nonprofit organizations or local nonprofit organizations. So we tend to not request informational meetings with organizations. Sometimes there's some personal connections where students are able to make that connection, but we know that nonprofits are overworked. Right. And we don't want to add to that. And so, but fortunately, there's a lot of information available, both about causes public problems, community strengths, and about the nonprofits themselves. So nonprofits generally have a good working website, right. And there's lots of information there. And this is also a call to nonprofits. This is a bit of a burden for nonprofits because they do need to have that website updated because you have people like us who are donors looking to spend our money, right. And so the students are able to access nonprofit websites. And then there's of course, other tools. The University has a subscription to GuideStar, which tabulates and collects IRS information, which has been really helpful. We do look at Charity Navigator, those kinds of sites. However, a lot of those organizations are much bigger than some of the organizations that the students are looking at here locally. So that doesn't always help. Another resource that highlights one of our partners as well is the United Way, which the United Way at the national level for over half of the US states compiles data from census and other government agencies called ALICE, which stands for asset limited income constrained employed, what we've called the working poor, right. And these are essentially folks who are above the federal poverty level, but really struggle to meet their basic needs and basic expenses. And so students use this data as part of their information collection and how nonprofits are responding to some of these, what we call in policy circles, wicked problems, right, such as poverty. And so students are usually floored. For example, in Albany, about 41 percent of residents fit in the poverty level and ALICE, so 41 percent of Albany County residents are unable to really, or struggle, to meet basic expenses, right. And so students are floored because that's a high number.
MARY HUNT:
Yeah.
SUSAN APPE:
However, at the same time, our students at the University at Albany, many of them have experienced either personally or, or seeing poverty, right. And so that speaks to them. And so what's neat about this process is students learn how to use some of this data to make sense of their lived experience or experiences that they've seen, and to be able to persuasively advocate for poverty alleviation programs, right. So students are able to use this data, able to think about how we use evidence to promote a cause, to promote an objective, right, and an objective we care about. So in philanthropy we often talk about you need to speak to the heart, but you also have to speak to the head. So some of this data that they're able to collect really speaks to the head, but they need to do it in a compelling way that speaks to the heart, right. And these are skills as public servants or as professionals in the community, I think that can transfer over to, to a lot of a lot of scenarios.
MARY HUNT:
It's not only helping them to make better informed choices for their own giving. You're also training nonprofit leaders, people who will go on and lead organizations in the public sector, who will be asking people for money, and need to know how to be strategic, how to be effective, and how to make, you know, as you say, a pitch that's really going to resonate with people, that's really going to speak authentically for their own organization. So these are all skills that can be taken from this course.
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, that's the idea. And I see students really excited once they get into thinking about this data, thinking about the nonprofits. You know, a lot of students have interfaced with nonprofits, whether it's through volunteering, receiving services, or having experience giving monetary gifts, but they really get to dive deep and really think about, you know, why nonprofits exist, what are they doing, how can we better support them, and then using data and other information to show that.
MARY HUNT:
Who are some of the organizations that have received funds from your class?
SUSAN APPE:
We have a mission of supporting local nonprofit organizations. And so local nonprofit organizations we define as in the Greater Capital Region. So that gives us a lot of options. And I will share a couple organizations. So we have kind of two groups, we have local organizations that are providing local services, right. And then we have organizations we've given to that are local organizations but are providing services in international contexts. And so I'll give us just a couple of examples of those. So it was a couple years ago that the undergraduate class gave 10 thousand dollars to the organization On Our Own Voices, which is right here in Albany, and it serves the LGBTQ and POC, people of color, communities in the Capital Region. And so they're really focused on tackling discrimination, that seeps into the services that these communities can provide health care ,or can receive rather, healthcare, housing, discrimination around employment. And so students were really taken by this organization for two reasons. One, they were providing essential services to this, this very vulnerable community. But they were also advocating, so students wanted to see both service provision and that they're advocating that these nonprofits are advocating for, you know, systemic change around discrimination, for example. So that was an organization. Another organization was the Commission on Economic Opportunities. That's in Troy, and that's a quite a large organization. They have a lot of different programs. And that was really responding to their concerns around poverty. Right. The mission of the Commission on Economic Opportunities is to empower people to rise out of poverty and to strengthen communities. And so in that semester, students… that was… poverty was a real issue that they wanted to tackle and so they gave to that organization. In my graduate class, and although I have done it at the undergraduate level, we also give to local nonprofit organizations that do work internationally. And this is where, as a professor my research seeps into my teaching, right, if we're talking really about being an engaged scholar. This is a good example of that for me. So we want to support local, and the university wants to support local, right. So that's why we are supporting local nonprofits across the board. But as it happens, and not many people would consider Albany a huge international hub of nonprofits doing international work, but we do have a lot of small nonprofits that are doing work internationally, and usually in what we would call the Global South or Latin America, Africa and Asia. And so one example is the MoonCatcher Project, and this is based out of Schenectady. Its mission is to optimize girls’ lives worldwide by removing barriers related to menstruation. And so it was started in 2011 by Ellie Von Wellsheim, who is a Schenectady resident, lifetime resident. And they essentially make menstruation kits and provide them to low-income communities, and this is to reduce the barrier that menstruation has in many contexts where, because menstruation pads, for example, are quite expensive and not readily available, during the menstruation period they will often stay home from school, right. And so this is a barrier in terms of advancing educational goals and educational outcomes. And so students, this really resonated with students, and they have given multiple times to the moon catcher project across the years. But they're always taken that in Albany, New York there are organizations that are doing really important work elsewhere.
MARY HUNT:
Who are some of your partners in the course?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so I've been lucky to be involved locally with the nonprofit sector, of course, and the United Way of the Greater Capital Region is one of the leaders, of course, in the nonprofit sector and we have been able to visit, I don't know if you've been to the location in downtown Albany, the Blake annex, which is beautiful. It's a co working space for the social sector. They're not all nonprofits, but everyone has a mission of sorts that is socially inclined. And it's a lot of nonprofits. And so students… we've taken my students in the class there to get a broader view of the nonprofit sector locally, right. We can't go visit all 700 nonprofits in the Capital Region; we just can't. But we can visit a hub of nonprofits, right. And so the United Way locally has been a great partner. And I'm excited to go back to the Blake Annex with students and show them really innovative work that nonprofits are doing in the spaces that they're creating, to collaborate to really wrestle with some of these bigger social and complex public problems.
MARY HUNT:
We talked a little bit for a moment about generational differences. I was wondering, you know, you are teaching, I guess, mostly Gen Z years, if I have my generations correct, I never seem to be able to keep track of the generations, and maybe some Millennials. Are there differences among the generation in what's important to them to give to or how they approach it, their behaviors in terms of giving? I think of the baby boomers as a generation that maybe has long- established habits, patterns of giving. But that whole idea you mentioned about reciprocity… 'm not sure that would have resonated so much with the baby boomers as it does with this generation. But again, that's a very non-informed opinion. That's just my kind of view of life and how I see the different generations.
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, I think there is, and there's some research to back this. Not so much my personal research, but kind of a shift, you talked about the baby boomers. They're very loyal to specific organizations, right. And kind of thinking about rather established organizations in the nonprofit world, for example, the Salvation Armies, the Catholic Charities, right, even the United Way's, right, which have really institutional presence in the nonprofit sector and do great work. I don't want to diminish their work, but I think that younger people tend to really wrap their heads around causes they care about and causes that are important right now. And so I have tried to frame some of the class around that. So when we think about poverty, a lot of students care about poverty. When we think about menstruation justice is one way of saying it, a lot of people care about that topic. When we care about rights around disenfranchised communities, right. It's more about the causes or the topics, that students, that resonates more with students than naming necessarily a nonprofit. And so I think that brings a lot of challenges to the nonprofit world, right. Because for so long, we have been told that we need to create loyal donors, and we do, but this really puts a bit of a monkey wrench in that, in that loyalty, right. And so thinking of how to speak to some of… how to, to really frame your mission around important issues of today, I think is a real… is what nonprofits are continually having to consider
MARY HUNT:
Also, the various channels that people are getting their information through about giving opportunities and need, you know… the various aspects of media or social media, this whole idea of crowdfunding. I mean, these are kind of relatively new concepts I think that, you know, maybe speak more to a younger generation, or that they're more responsive to.
SUSAN APPE:
Yes, I absolutely do. And I mean, larger organizations are learning. I mean, we're seeing crowdfunding, and this isn't an area so much of my personal research, but you're absolutely right. And I think that crowdfunding, to some degree, replicates some of the, I don't want to say emotions, but let's say emotions of reciprocity, of mutual aid, of we’re all in this together framework. I think a lot of my students resonate with that, both graduate and undergraduate.
MARY HUNT:
If you could say, I want my students to leave the course with, you know, one or two important takeaways, what are the most important things you want them to complete the course knowing or feeling? How do you want them to be changed by taking the course?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, I want them to identify as philanthropists. And there's some debate if maybe we should not use the word philanthropy or philanthropist, right. There are other ways. Maybe we can use the word givers and giving. Generosity is a word that resonates across cultural domains, right. So thinking about generosity, so maybe I can say I want my students to be generous, whatever that looks like, in their communities, right. I want them to be able to articulate causes they care about whether they're going to go work for them professionally, which is one route to contribute to solving problems or empowering communities, or if they're going to go a different professional route, that's fine, but that they're still engaged in in those causes that they care about, right, in their communities. I want them to wrestle with ideas. And this is, I wrestle with these ideas in my own research, around do we give locally, and should that be a priority versus do we give where there's greatest need, which might be internationally, right, in terms of basic human needs. And those are tricky questions. And again, I wrestle with this personally, and this is at the core of some of my research. Usually, it doesn't have to be an either or. But I think students thinking about that, kind of the relative need of their local community versus the absolute need of some of these communities elsewhere that are quite literally foreign to us and, you know, what are some of the implications there. And there have been semesters where we've had a pot of money. We've picked two organizations, one serving local communities and one serving international communities. And they've had to decide the distribution of where we should put more emphasis on. And it's surprising by the end of the semester we have most often split it evenly because it was too hard for them to really say one over the other so much, right. And that's an interesting process. And so I want students to think about that. As someone who does work globally, I really care about global issues, but I also live in my hometown. Of course I want to give locally, so I am wrestling with this.
MARY HUNT:
I like your suggestion of thinking of them as givers, as well as philanthropists, but using the term givers, because we think philanthropy and we think dollars. And sometimes it's just as important that you may not have the dollars to give, but you may have the time to give; you may have non-dollar resources: clothing, food, time to give, volunteerism. So, I think that's… to expand their vision of how you can give and how you can make an impact. It's not just the size of your wallet that matters.
SUSAN APPE:
Absolutely. And that is a real click for students. And that's why, you know, I like the idea of kind of reclaiming philanthropy and being a philanthropist, right, and saying that it is about giving private resources to the public and social good, right. That's the definition of philanthropy. And, you know, that can… resources can be very broad, as you mentioned… your time, your talents, right, your financial monetary resources, etc., in-kind. And so students, I think, do leave, I mean, to get back at the question of what do I want them to leave with. What do I want them to learn, I do think they leave with a broader understanding of what philanthropy is and what generosity looks like in a community.
MARY HUNT:
Speaking of talent, and research, what's on your current research agenda? I know you do a great deal of traveling and your research is not just local, as you said, you have a great interest in global issues. And I know you're, you're traveling for your research. So tell me what's on your research agenda these days?
SUSAN APPE:
Yeah, so, um, you know, one of my lines of research looks at private philanthropy in international development. So thinking about poverty alleviation, thinking about educational outcomes in more developing contexts in Latin America, Africa, and Asia. And specifically though, kind of within that idea of private philanthropy in international development, or international cooperation, I'm looking at philanthropists who are immigrants and migrants in the U.S., who are collectively pooling their money together to send back to their homelands. And so you probably have heard of remittances, which is direct transfers to family and friends, often in the homeland. And that's really important. It is a massive amount of money that is redistributed essentially, globally. This is looking at collective remittances. So looking at immigrants and migrants here in the U.S., how they're pooling their money, and then using nonprofit organizations, creating nonprofit organizations, often leading them to then send money back home for projects such as building schools, educational scholarships, really public works, bringing electricity to villages, paving roads, even contributing to community spaces, like redoing the plaza, in their hometown, for example. And so that research has taken me to Mexico, Colombia and India and I'm hoping to expand it to Egypt, Nigeria, and the Philippines,
MARY HUNT:
Very interested and you’re Peace Corps, former Peace Corps volunteer, aren't you?
SUSAN APPE:
I am. Yes, yeah.
MARY HUNT:
A very natural progression to your work and your interests.
SUSAN APPE:
I think it was really, I mean, of course, it was absolutely fundamental. And I'm really involved in… we have a Peace Corps prep program at the University at Albany, which is extraordinary, and has an extraordinary team of returned Peace Corps volunteers who help guide undergraduate students in particular, to kind of prepare them for the application and getting out there in in the Peace Corps.
MARY HUNT:
I always ask guests on the Engagement Ring for what I call a gem that they can share with listeners, that listeners would be richer for, smarter for, have a new resource to lean on. Let's put it in the context of giving. if an individual is inclined to, has the resources to give, in whatever way, whatever kind of resource it is, what two or three things would you ask them to consider? What's kind of a checklist they should have in order before they make that donation with their limited resources?
SUSAN APPE:
Oh, that's a good question. One is, as I mentioned, previously, this idea of giving from the heart and giving from the head, and there has, I think, to the detriment of philanthropy, been a push to give because of the head, right, to give to organizations that can very easily demonstrate results. And there are very limited organizations and causes and public problems that can show results easily and quickly. And if we only limit ourselves to those organizations we will only be giving to at this moment, health organizations in Africa, for example. Really important cause; I'm not suggesting we shouldn't give there. But if we're deciding to give just based on certain metrics that have been created, that are basically how many lives can this dollar save… because it's so hard to answer that question with so many issues. Health really is the one of the only ones that were able to convincingly answer that question. And so we're going to give there. But that’s really limiting to our philanthropic endeavors, right. And so we need to balance giving with, you know, from the head with giving from the heart, right, that there are issues that we care about that we might not be able to show in a year span that we have solved. These are very messy, complex, wicked problems. But we still want to contribute to alleviating poverty, to alleviating or getting rid of discrimination, right, of all the complex public problems that we have we want to contribute, because we care about that, because we've experienced it. We've lived it. We've seen others live with it. And so I think we're getting a little distracted by all the cool metrics. And we need to kind of take a step back and acknowledge that those are important issues. Health in Africa is super important. As someone who does work in Africa, yes. But that's not, that's not everything in philanthropic giving. We know that it's personal. We know that it's, you know, related to emotion. And so I would tell anyone to think about that. I think that's important. Yeah.
[Theme music fades in.]
MARY HUNT:
Susan Appe, it was so nice to talk to you. Good luck with your class. And with all your important research all over the globe. It really was good to see you. So thanks so much for joining me today.
SUSAN APPE:
Thanks, Mary! Yeah, you’re one of my old faces.
[Both laugh heartily.}
SUSAN APPE:
One from the past, which is so nice. You feel really part of the UAlbany community when you have, you know, colleagues for a long time.
MARY HUNT:
I know. t's really nice to see you. Have a wonderful holiday season.
SUSAN APPE:
Thank you! You too.
ANNOUNCER/MARY HUNT:
Susan Appe is an associate professor of public administration and policy and international affairs at Rockefeller College of Public Affairs and Policy at the University at Albany. Dr. Appe's research focuses on government-nonprofit relations, and the dimensions and evolution of the nonprofit sector. She examines how government policy influences and shape civil society and nonprofit organizations and non-governmental organizations, how and why nonprofit organizations form networks and their implications, and the relationship between organized civil society foreign aid and development. For more information on Dr. Appe's research and teaching, visit the resource page for this podcast on Simplecast. The Engagement Ring is produced by the University at Albany's Office for Public Engagement. If you have questions or comments or want to share an idea for an upcoming podcast, email us at UAlbany o-p-e at Albany dot e-d-u.